Well, the semester end and vacation were more draining then I thought. Not much of an excuse for such a long break in posts, but there it is. The new semester begins, and everything is bright and clean and other things that evoke renewal and life.
Beyond the pleasantries, something has again caught my interest:
I met a lovely couple a few days ago, during my vacation. They were just beginning theirs as mine was coming to a close; we ended up in the same hot tub, and lo and behold, conversation sprung up. The topics were tame to begin with; vacationing, weather, travel, and so forth. Things became interesting once we started into the three forbidden topics; economics lead to politics, and after that, we agreed to risk a religious discussion.
We discussed, debated, argued; it was a grand time for all three of us. This was slightly surprising, as we came from distinctly different viewpoints. They were Christians; Protestants and biblical literalists. I am...well, not.
Now, thanks in part to the internet and various polarized pages within, alongside past experience, I was expecting the stereotypical Fundamentalist; I was pleasantly surprised that they acted much more Christian then that. They were willing to discuss, didn't get offended easily, and did indeed seem to remember that whole thing about "love thy neighbor" They still believe in young-earth creationism, and that homosexuals go to hell, and that everyone who doesn't know Christ will go to hell (and it will be quite populous for that reason), but were decent despite. Their beliefs in various soul-damning methods didn't stop them from being nice people, a fact that is refreshing to me, and jarring to my compatriots when I recounted it later.
The couple displayed a curiosity towards what "the young people think/believe/are being taught", and while that may simply be tactical, it's better to be curious then to make assumptions. Similarly, they were glad to have lines of communication open, though the more cynical of our group noted they may just be because they were trying to "save me", as it was.
But I'm getting ahead of myself. First, we simply discussed religion on a fairly general scale; I inquired about their beliefs, and they asked mine in return. It was evident that they believed strongly, and that their faith was a positive impact upon their life, which I was glad to see; it's always nice to see people find...how does one say...comfort, meaning, or purpose. We discussed various portions of each of our beliefs, though in retrospect, there was plenty left to say; notably, I would have liked to chat a bit more about why they believed homosexuals doomed. Of course, the conversation continued to move, so I didn't have a chance; beyond that, I was curious to bring up a topic close to my heart: evolution.
I should probably provide a little more background at this point for the sake of clarity. I'm studying the biological sciences as an undergraduate, near graduation, and have been working in my field for some time, without being too specific. Because of this, I understand the theory of evolution as it stands rather well (I should hope) and I accept the theory as scientific fact due to the huge base of evidence. From my perspective then, the debate wasn't precisely fair; I did note to them at one point that, as they were not trained in biology and not really exposed to the literature, they only had my word to go on as far as some of the evidence and experiments that came up.
We covered much ground, but not as much as I would have liked looking back. This didn't stop us from talking the evening away, mind you, we just didn't exactly finish. Then again, I believe we all entered the discussion understanding that no one was going to really be convinced during this time, so it was more about understanding one another, and that itself is important.
It was interesting, and perhaps a little disparaging. The impression I got was that their arguments were:
*The bible was divinely inspired and needs to be taken literally
*Faith is important, and their faith could suffice (when logic failed)
*Creationism should be taught as a second option in schools
*Evolution doesn't make sense:
-violates the second law of thermodynamics
-gaps in the fossil record
-too many mutations required between ape and man to make sense
*In response to dating methods and evidence for the big bang (in the form of radiation and the nature of light), god could have created the universe at a point as is.
I...well, the simplest way to say it would be I disagree, and downright object to most of these points:
*I question the inerrant and literal interpretation of the bible, due to origins in oral tradition, political/church meddling through it's conception, translation problems, and conflicting stories
*I respect faith, but I don't think it is a suitable argument to prove most anything, aside that you have faith; it's cyclic
*Creationism/ID is too tied to religion, and a specific religion at that, to be legal. Further, it's not a science, and really isn't useful as one; you can't use creation science to make predictions, invent inventions, or so forth (we hit this point at the end, so didn't really get into it)
As to scientific data, I've seen the evidence for evolution, and presented as much as I could without a wiki at my fingertips (sparing the gory details here); I've personally witnessed evolution occur, which was a rather fun thing to point out in the midst.
The debate eventually had to end; we all had to sleep at some point. None the less, we were pleased with the conversation and company, and exchanged suggestions for readings to further learn about about each others' views; they recommended "Creation Science" and "Evidence that Demands a Verdict", and I recommended the Wikipedia articles relating to the debate and evolution in general, and "On the Origin of Species" (Darwin).
I am going to read every word of their books, and I do hope they have a peek at Darwin's as well; I got the impression that they likely didn't fully grasp evolution, and though outdated, The Origin of Species is written with laymen in mind, so it should be understandable.
Oh yes, perhaps the most delightful thing I heard is, after explaining the Banana Falacy, their reaction was "Well you're right; that is stupid". A refreshing, encounter indeed.
P.S.: if any are interested, Wikipedia has a rather good series all about the debate. For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objections_to_evolution is about as expected, along with the objections to the objections.